Hello all,
I just wanted to let everyone know that the debate that took place a while back at Tabor College between myself and Mr. Garret Boyer is now available on DVD. The cost to receive a copy is $10.00 which includes shipping to anywhere in the US. If you are outside the US I will have to check on shipping cost's to your area and get back with you.
For those who might not remember, the debate was over the topic of "Is Baptism a Necessary Condition for Salvation?" Garret Boyer is a member of the Church of Christ and contended for the position that it is indeed a requirement for salvation. I of course took the traditional protestant/Baptist view that it is not, rather it is By faith alone we are saved. The debate is just a bit under 2 hours long.
If you are interested in receiving a copy of the debate please contact me by email at jacob@nailmark.org, and I will work out the details with you as far as shipping address and payment options. Hopefully after the new site is finished being constructed this will be a much simpler process with the store that will be built into the site.
Sola Deo Gloria,
Jacob Allee
Showing posts with label baptism debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label baptism debate. Show all posts
Tuesday, April 8, 2008
Monday, November 12, 2007
After the Debate
Well the debate came, and just like that, it went. Thankfully it went well, for me anyway. Garret Boyer did a commendable job considering that he has not really had any experience in public speaking or debate. However, that said, his argument was pretty simple and ammounted to the usual Church of Christ argument.
The verses that were used as his main argument were:
Acts 2:38 (shocking I know)
1 Peter 3:20-21 (even more shocking, I know)
Surprisingly he made a rather large argument based upon Acts 8:26-40 this is the story of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Mr. Boyer's major point was that Philip was concerned with being baptized immediately after hearing the gospel, and that God did not take Philip away from there until after he had baptized the Eunuch. This supposedly is a narrative example of baptismal regeneration.
Well, there are some serious problems with that interpretation, and he used a similar argument for the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:25-34 and basically argues that because we see baptism occur after almost every passage in Acts where people accept the gospel that this points to the need for baptism to finish the process of salvation.
Of course it could simply mean that in the apostolic era there wasn't any confusion about the importance of baptism as an expression of the salvation one had through faith in Christ, and everyone who believed in Christ was eager to follow Him in obedience to baptism.
Anyway, I'm going to do a series of posts dealing with the issues surrounding this debate, debunking passages that are often pointed to by baptismal regeneration proponents such as the Church of Christ.
The debate was recorded, if you'd like an audio CD you can contact me via email, jacob@reformationapologetics.com. Just give me your address and I'll send it your way. All I'm asking for $5 to cover the cost of the CD's and shipping. If you live outside the US we'll discuss the difference in shipping.
I'll work on making it available for download in Mp3 format as well.
Serving Christ,
Jacob
The verses that were used as his main argument were:
Acts 2:38 (shocking I know)
1 Peter 3:20-21 (even more shocking, I know)
Surprisingly he made a rather large argument based upon Acts 8:26-40 this is the story of Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Mr. Boyer's major point was that Philip was concerned with being baptized immediately after hearing the gospel, and that God did not take Philip away from there until after he had baptized the Eunuch. This supposedly is a narrative example of baptismal regeneration.
Well, there are some serious problems with that interpretation, and he used a similar argument for the Philippian jailer in Acts 16:25-34 and basically argues that because we see baptism occur after almost every passage in Acts where people accept the gospel that this points to the need for baptism to finish the process of salvation.
Of course it could simply mean that in the apostolic era there wasn't any confusion about the importance of baptism as an expression of the salvation one had through faith in Christ, and everyone who believed in Christ was eager to follow Him in obedience to baptism.
Anyway, I'm going to do a series of posts dealing with the issues surrounding this debate, debunking passages that are often pointed to by baptismal regeneration proponents such as the Church of Christ.
The debate was recorded, if you'd like an audio CD you can contact me via email, jacob@reformationapologetics.com. Just give me your address and I'll send it your way. All I'm asking for $5 to cover the cost of the CD's and shipping. If you live outside the US we'll discuss the difference in shipping.
I'll work on making it available for download in Mp3 format as well.
Serving Christ,
Jacob
Friday, November 9, 2007
Purpose of Apologetics
As I look forward to tomorrow's debate over the issue "Is baptism a necessary condition for salvation." I've given some thought yet once again about the purpose of apologetics. That is, why is apologetics important and what purpose does it serve. It is my personal conviction that apologetics has (at the very least) three major and crucial functions within the church.
1. Defending the Faith: Obvious I know. But let us never forget that the word apologetics comes from the Greek phrase "pros apologian" which literally means "toward a defense." Apologetics is the area of ministry that stands as a shield for the church. I think this is a major reason why I am so passionate about apologetics. With all of the wolves that are trying to snag the sheep, apologists play the role of a shepherd in a universal sense. I do not mean this in any way to downplay the more central role that pastors play as shepherds to local congregations, I honor that role as supremely important and it is an official office given by Scripture where "apologist" is not.
But nonetheless, apologist's practice the art of refuting false doctrine and clarifying Biblical doctrine. The work of an apologist is to silence "false prophets" and point towards the truth of Jesus Christ as found in the Scripture. Apologetics is an academic ministry, a fight on the front line of Christian doctrine, saying "thus says the word of God" and telling false teachers "you stand condemned by Scripture." I love apologetics because it is a noble profession of holding the line.
2. Building up the Body: Another purpose of apologetics that is closely related with the first purpose, the other side of that coin perhaps, is encouraging Christians to know what the Bible teaches and have confidence in solid Christian doctrine. While apologetics is the art of defending the faith, the best way to defend the faith is to equip the church with the truth so that each believer can themselves call a spade a spade. Apologetics keeps out false doctrine away from the church and solidifies Biblical doctrine within the church.
3. Evangelism: A good apologist always has, in addition to the first 2 points, this third one in mind. A desire to see the lost saved. Whether it be the false teachers we refute, the people who follow them, or the people who are neutral but by hearing the truth compared to falsehood are drawn by God's Spirit to know Christ Jesus. Yes apologetics is also a way of proclaiming the gospel. One cannot help while clarifying the gospel message to also proclaim it and pray that God draws His elect to Himself.
As I engage in this debate tomorrow, I hope I accomplish in the name and power of Christ and the authority of Scripture, all three of those purposes. I appreciate your prayers for the debate tomorrow.
In Him
-Jacob
1. Defending the Faith: Obvious I know. But let us never forget that the word apologetics comes from the Greek phrase "pros apologian" which literally means "toward a defense." Apologetics is the area of ministry that stands as a shield for the church. I think this is a major reason why I am so passionate about apologetics. With all of the wolves that are trying to snag the sheep, apologists play the role of a shepherd in a universal sense. I do not mean this in any way to downplay the more central role that pastors play as shepherds to local congregations, I honor that role as supremely important and it is an official office given by Scripture where "apologist" is not.
But nonetheless, apologist's practice the art of refuting false doctrine and clarifying Biblical doctrine. The work of an apologist is to silence "false prophets" and point towards the truth of Jesus Christ as found in the Scripture. Apologetics is an academic ministry, a fight on the front line of Christian doctrine, saying "thus says the word of God" and telling false teachers "you stand condemned by Scripture." I love apologetics because it is a noble profession of holding the line.
2. Building up the Body: Another purpose of apologetics that is closely related with the first purpose, the other side of that coin perhaps, is encouraging Christians to know what the Bible teaches and have confidence in solid Christian doctrine. While apologetics is the art of defending the faith, the best way to defend the faith is to equip the church with the truth so that each believer can themselves call a spade a spade. Apologetics keeps out false doctrine away from the church and solidifies Biblical doctrine within the church.
3. Evangelism: A good apologist always has, in addition to the first 2 points, this third one in mind. A desire to see the lost saved. Whether it be the false teachers we refute, the people who follow them, or the people who are neutral but by hearing the truth compared to falsehood are drawn by God's Spirit to know Christ Jesus. Yes apologetics is also a way of proclaiming the gospel. One cannot help while clarifying the gospel message to also proclaim it and pray that God draws His elect to Himself.
As I engage in this debate tomorrow, I hope I accomplish in the name and power of Christ and the authority of Scripture, all three of those purposes. I appreciate your prayers for the debate tomorrow.
In Him
-Jacob
Tuesday, November 6, 2007
Baptism Debate Saturday
Well, it's the week of the big debate! I'm excited for this opportunity to share the truth of God about baptism and what it is for (and what it is not for). It's a real privilege to defend what Scripture teaches especially given an issue that centers around the genuine gospel of Christ verses a perversion of the gospel.
I met today with Garret Boyer, whom I'm debating, and Dr. Richard Kyle (the moderator) and we discussed the final details of the debate. We scaled the time back a bit so it wouldn't run as long. Unfortunately people don't always want to listen to a full 2 1/2 hours of theological debate, so it's now closer to only 2 hours.
Mr. Boyer is a sharp guy, I look forward to hearing how he decides to approach the debate and which passages he hones in on. I of course expect Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, John 3:5, and a few others to be used, but nonetheless it will be interesting to see how well and in what way he presents them.
He has my respect for being willing to debate this issue in an environment that is by far predominantly against the view of baptismal regeneration. Hillsboro is a predominantly Mennonite area (Mennonite Brethren, General Conference Mennonite, Alderman Mennonite). Tabor college where I'm at currently is a Mennonite Brethren School and this is where the debate is going to be held.
Some Mennonite's do not practice full immersion for baptism and some do, but none (insofar as I know) hold to baptismal regeneration and all of them, I believe, hold to believers baptism as a sign of salvation. So Mr. Boyer is the one holding the unpopular opinion here which I would think would make it even a bit harder (something like when James White is on the radio in Salt Lake City, Utah). So he does have my respect in being willing to stand up for his conviction even though it is wrong and extremely dangerous to ones soul.
Anyway, it should be a fun time (yes, I think debating is fun.) I appreciate your prayers as I finish up my preparation for the debate Saturday and as I attempt to communicate God's truth in a way that brings Him glory and hopefully convicts sinners of their need to trust in Christ Jesus alone for salvation. If you live anywhere in the area of Hillsboro I'd love to see you this Saturday at 2pm in the Tabor College Chapel.
Sola Fide,
Jacob
I met today with Garret Boyer, whom I'm debating, and Dr. Richard Kyle (the moderator) and we discussed the final details of the debate. We scaled the time back a bit so it wouldn't run as long. Unfortunately people don't always want to listen to a full 2 1/2 hours of theological debate, so it's now closer to only 2 hours.
Mr. Boyer is a sharp guy, I look forward to hearing how he decides to approach the debate and which passages he hones in on. I of course expect Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, John 3:5, and a few others to be used, but nonetheless it will be interesting to see how well and in what way he presents them.
He has my respect for being willing to debate this issue in an environment that is by far predominantly against the view of baptismal regeneration. Hillsboro is a predominantly Mennonite area (Mennonite Brethren, General Conference Mennonite, Alderman Mennonite). Tabor college where I'm at currently is a Mennonite Brethren School and this is where the debate is going to be held.
Some Mennonite's do not practice full immersion for baptism and some do, but none (insofar as I know) hold to baptismal regeneration and all of them, I believe, hold to believers baptism as a sign of salvation. So Mr. Boyer is the one holding the unpopular opinion here which I would think would make it even a bit harder (something like when James White is on the radio in Salt Lake City, Utah). So he does have my respect in being willing to stand up for his conviction even though it is wrong and extremely dangerous to ones soul.
Anyway, it should be a fun time (yes, I think debating is fun.) I appreciate your prayers as I finish up my preparation for the debate Saturday and as I attempt to communicate God's truth in a way that brings Him glory and hopefully convicts sinners of their need to trust in Christ Jesus alone for salvation. If you live anywhere in the area of Hillsboro I'd love to see you this Saturday at 2pm in the Tabor College Chapel.
Sola Fide,
Jacob
Friday, October 19, 2007
Baptism Debate Developing Details
Garret Boyer and I spoke yesterday for a couple of hours. During that time we worked out some details for the debate, and then we had some friendly conversation about the subject matter of baptism (and a bit off track we also talked about election, human will, limited atonement and eternal security). All in all it was a helpful conversation for me to gain a better idea of where Mr. Boyer will be coming from. I'm equally certain it was beneficial for him.
The date of the debate is officially set for November 10, 2007 at 2:00 pm. The question that is under debate will be: "Is baptism a necessary condition for salvation?"
Garret Boyer is a part of the Church of Christ and will be defending the position that baptism is a necessary condition for salvation.
Jacob Allee (me) is a reformed Southern Baptist and will be refuting baptism as a necessary condition for salvation and affirming that faith alone is necessary for salvation.
This is the format we will be following:
20 min. opening statement -Garret Boyer
20 min. opening statement -Jacob Allee
10 min. rebuttal -Garret Boyer
10 min. rebuttal -Jacob Allee
2nd 10 min. rebuttal -Garret Boyer
2nd 10 min. rebuttal -Jacob Allee
(Short break)
15 min. cross-examination -Garret Boyer (asks Q's)
15 min. cross-examination -Jacob Allee (asks Q's)
20 min. closing statements -Garret Boyer
20 min. closing statements -Jacob Allee
Audience questions.
For those who might be able to attend, I would plan on being there until about 5 pm. I would love for everyone who can be there to be there. Mr. Boyer is an intelligent individual who is sure to put a good argument on the table, the debate is sure to be a good one. I hope to see you there!
I'm trying to make arrangements for both audio and visual recordings of the debate so I can make them available as a resource from Reformation In Progress for those who are unable to attend.
God Bless!!!!!!!
-Jacob
The date of the debate is officially set for November 10, 2007 at 2:00 pm. The question that is under debate will be: "Is baptism a necessary condition for salvation?"
Garret Boyer is a part of the Church of Christ and will be defending the position that baptism is a necessary condition for salvation.
Jacob Allee (me) is a reformed Southern Baptist and will be refuting baptism as a necessary condition for salvation and affirming that faith alone is necessary for salvation.
This is the format we will be following:
20 min. opening statement -Garret Boyer
20 min. opening statement -Jacob Allee
10 min. rebuttal -Garret Boyer
10 min. rebuttal -Jacob Allee
2nd 10 min. rebuttal -Garret Boyer
2nd 10 min. rebuttal -Jacob Allee
(Short break)
15 min. cross-examination -Garret Boyer (asks Q's)
15 min. cross-examination -Jacob Allee (asks Q's)
20 min. closing statements -Garret Boyer
20 min. closing statements -Jacob Allee
Audience questions.
For those who might be able to attend, I would plan on being there until about 5 pm. I would love for everyone who can be there to be there. Mr. Boyer is an intelligent individual who is sure to put a good argument on the table, the debate is sure to be a good one. I hope to see you there!
I'm trying to make arrangements for both audio and visual recordings of the debate so I can make them available as a resource from Reformation In Progress for those who are unable to attend.
God Bless!!!!!!!
-Jacob
Sunday, October 7, 2007
My First Debate is in the Works!
Well it looks like I'm going to have the opportunity for my first live, moderated debate. My opponent will be Garret Boyer, a sophomore at Tabor College. We don't have an exact thesis for the debate yet, but basically the debate will be over the issue of whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation. Mr. Boyer will take the affirmative and I will of course take the negative.
I'm excited for this opportunity to defend the gospel of Christ in a public, acedemic setting. This issue is an old debate amongst various denominations of protestants and Roman Catholics. I'm glad to stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ and declare that salvation is by God's grace through faith alone.
There are still a lot of details to be worked out like when and where, finding a moderator, agreeing on the format of the debate and so on. I appreciate your prayers as I begin to study the issue in depth and prepare for this defense of the gospel.
I'll inform you of the details as they come together.
God Bless,
Jacob
Ephesians 2:8-9
I'm excited for this opportunity to defend the gospel of Christ in a public, acedemic setting. This issue is an old debate amongst various denominations of protestants and Roman Catholics. I'm glad to stand for the gospel of Jesus Christ and declare that salvation is by God's grace through faith alone.
There are still a lot of details to be worked out like when and where, finding a moderator, agreeing on the format of the debate and so on. I appreciate your prayers as I begin to study the issue in depth and prepare for this defense of the gospel.
I'll inform you of the details as they come together.
God Bless,
Jacob
Ephesians 2:8-9
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